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Mitolife Radio

Apr 17, 2020

I've been sweating in far infrared saunas for the past 8 years. Before moving out to the country with cleaner air and lots of pine trees I could feel my lungs getting taxed from all of the car exhaust and hydration-robbing pollutants. A big part of my strategy was to drink and bathe in clean water and sweat regularly in a far infrared sauna. The idea is to keep the water in my body charged and structured so that I can resist non-native EMF and everything else that's we're exposed to.

Phillip Wilson has been selling the Relax saunas for over twelve years. The entire tent acts a mirror to reflect the 95-98% pure far infrared light, or heat, that is generated. This results in a faster and more effective sweat, and a better activation of the parasympathetic nervous system. 

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Matt - Phillip has a lot of spunk, very energetic and I think it’s largely because of his daily sauna use. My history with sauna use is quite extensive and I talked to Phil about how it’s really light therapy. People don’t think about that because when they think of a sauna they might think of a traditional steam sauna that you would see at a gym or something. Light therapy can help strengthen your cells. It is an acceleration tool for your recovery.

Phillip - I’m glad to be here. It’s always fun to tell people how wonderful the Relax Sauna is, and what it can do to transform a person’s life and their health.

Matt - Yeah. Absolutely. I think it was the Raw Living Expo, probably, like about 7 or 8 years ago, I saw you there.

Phillip - We were at one in LA. They had a raw food festival there. And, we were at the Sedona one a couple of times as well. And Santa Barbara, that was about 10 years ago, 2009, as well.

Matt - Yeah, I remember that. There are so many things at those conferences that I just kind of shake my head and roll my eyes at.  Every time I would see your booth, I would, like, there’s something to it. I’ve been studying light therapy pretty intensely for the last 6 or 7 years. I read a ton of books. Into the Light was one of my favorites, just a lot of clinical research on different wavelengths of light. I never made the connection that what you’re doing is heat but it’s really light therapy, right?

Phillip - Yes, it’s light therapy. And, I’ve been into inner sound and inner light for 50 years now. So, there’s something very special about light, very, very special, especially the frequency of the far-infrared light.

Matt - Yeah. And, I definitely want to jump into that. Is there a Dr. Wilson who promotes near-infrared?

Phillip - That’s like my last name.

Matt- Yeah, that’s right. it gets confusing. I had 4 of those heat bulbs and I was sure that was a ton of electricity. But, I would sit in that naked before and after work. And, I was working long hours back then, just grinding. And, I did feel like it benefited me. I felt like it was safer than the sun because you can get UV damage, right? And, that’s what a lot of people don’t realize. That’s where the benefit of these devices comes in if you really need to target.

Phillip - Yeah, it’s concentrated. It’s so much more concentrated far-infrared than the sun gives. But, I still love the sun. But, the far-infrared light from the Relax Sauna is very unique and special, as we will elaborate in the next hour.

Matt -Yeah, Absolutely. I was looking through your website and you highlight that there are computer-program ceramic semiconductor chips that filter out all of the non-healing light rays. That’s pretty cool.

Phillip - Well, that was a real dilemma about, way back about 30 years ago or 40 years ago when they created the Relax Sauna from 1987 to 1997. They struggled with HOW to get the near-infrared out of the vibration, out of the frequency, and HOW to get the mid-infrared out.

Because see, water is a far-infrared molecule. It vibrates at 8 microns. And the Relax Sauna sends off the energy of 4 to 14 microns only, which is 4 to 14,000 nanometers if you speak that language. And we, as humans, vibrate at 4.6 microns. Water is at 8 microns. So, the water molecules, it’s like astrology, it’s conjunct. It’s the same energy. The water is the same energy. Our bodies are the same energy as the light being. So, because it’s coming at us and we don’t see it as different from us, we don’t try to resist it. And, the resistance is the opposite of absorption.
And, so, the Relax Sauna, being 95 to 99% far-infrared energy, and it took them 10 years to figure out how to do that. It’s like they had an a-ha moment. it’s like the invention of the sewing machine. He had a dream and he was shown. And, when it was shown, and, I believe the people in Taiwan had an a-ha moment. Or, they were shown and they didn’t even realize the impact of their invention. Because when you’re in the Relax Sauna, you experience the Chi.

It’s like Dr. Bill Apkinar, he wrote a book No Sweat Know Sweat. You know, basically, reclaiming your health and the Definitive Guide to Reclaiming Your Health. And, it’s all about the history of sweating. And, he quotes Hippocrates in there, saying, “Find me a way to create sweat or a fever and I will cure disease.” Not that I might. Not that I could. But, that I will. And, that’s the secret.

Because the far-infrared energy is the same energy as the water molecules, the organic molecules of your body, and all mammals. It’s absorbed. It causes the water molecules to pulsate. So, what does far-infrared do? It does one thing only. And, near-infrared doesn’t do this and mid-infrared doesn’t do it. Only far-infrared resonates with the water molecules. That’s all it does. And, the resonating of the waters molecules, it’s like divine love. You just sit there and it’s the same energy as you. So, you just absorb it. And, it causes your water molecules to pulsate. The resonating causes the water molecules to pulsate.

So, if every cell in your body and, hence, any organic cell in the body, not any titanium rod. Not any heart pumps, none of that is affected, only the water and the organic molecules start pulsating. That’s like 100 people in a small room dancing. It’s going to get hot. So, that’s the key to increasing body temperature. It’s another way of saying it’s going to create a fever. And, it’s just a temporary fever. You get out and 20 minutes later, you don’t have a fever. So, it causes the increase in the core temperature of the body. So, what does that do when you have a fever?

When I was a kid and I had my three -cold or flu, you know, that’s just the way it worked. And, after the second day or third day, I’d wake up totally soaked in bed but feeling incredible. And, so, the sweating gets the toxins out.

There’s a book by Tilden from, maybe, the 1930s, and he said. “The cause of all disease is toxemia.” See? Because the cause of all disease is when you get toxins built up in your body. In a natural environment, and you and I are both, I mean, right now I do a lot of raw foods. I am mostly vegan now. You know, the body chemically changes. And, when the body chemically changes you don’t want to be stubborn. You want to listen. And, you can’t be attached to any particular discipline. Like, I experimented with macrobiotics. I was a fruitarian for a while back in the 70s in my early 20s. And, then, all of a sudden, there’s a shift. If you’re tuned in, see, a corner turns. I was meditating once and they said, “A corner turns. You have to listen.” I was even given the phrase momentum, taking advantage of the moment, propelling yourself into greatness and that means that’s different than living in the moment.

When you take advantage of the moment, it means you’re living in the moment and listening to that inner nudge, that inner guidance, because when the rules change, when you graduate from high school and you’re in college, the rules change. You can’t act like a high school senior. You have to act like a college freshman. This is part of all life. You go from one plateau to the next plateau. And, it’s like a step function and, all of a sudden, it’s like you die from being a high school senior and you are born into being a college freshman. And, that’s the process.

And, Rumi said in his poetry, “When have I ever been less by dying? I died as a mineral, I became a plant. I rose to animal then I became a human. What makes me be anything less by dying?” And, with every death, there’s a rebirth. So, every death is a beginning of life. And. people are afraid of it. And, that’s what drives me crazy. You know, because fear, you know, if you have love in your heart for all life, then fear can’t exist.

And, that’s what happens when you get into the Relax Sauna. All your water molecules start pulsating. I haven’t figured it out yet but you either birth lymphocytes, you know, because of the warmth. The heat creates them or you activate them. They come out of hiding. The lymphocytes are the white blood cells, whatever you want to call the essential part of the immune system. And, they go and do their job and get anything that’s foreign to the body and get rid of them. They either eat them up or they expel them through the lymphatic system. And, that’s the beauty of what the Relax Sauna does.

See? Again, it does one thing. It resonates the water molecules which causes the water molecules to pulsate. And, then from that, you have 4 effects. Like the first one I explain, you mobilize the immune system and that gets the toxins out of the body. Now, the problem with some detoxification formulas is they get the toxins, maybe, out of the liver, out of the lung, or wherever. But, then, you don’t have enough oomph to get them out out of the body. And, so, whatever doctor protocol you’re working on, if you then get into the Relax Sauna, that will mobilize the lymph and instead of playing musical chairs, where the toxin gets out of the lungs and settles in the kidney, you keep it going and it gets out of the body, through the sweat, through the urine, or through the colon and even through the lungs. And, that’s really important. So, the mobilizing of the lymphatic system is number one.

Number two: you could say it increases the micro-circulation and that’s because the pulsating of the water molecules gets the hydrogen and oxygen molecule, the angle between the two hydrogens and the oxygen, the oxygen is the vortex of the angle. The pulsating of the water molecule causes the water molecule to get smaller. You get smaller water, you get smaller blood cells so it’s really really exciting. So, therefore, you increase the microcirculation. And, that’s why people go into the Relax Sauna. And, this isn’t true for all the other saunas. It is true to an extent. But, you know, maybe like a 22-inch bicycle with training wheels will still get you to the grocery store, but it won’t be as pleasant as a 26-inch professional bike.

So, we were at a Lyme conference in Boston a couple of years ago. And, this one lady had Lyme disease for 2 1/2 years. And, as a result of the Lyme disease, she had neuropathy. She had no feeling in her fingers and her toes. She got in the Relax Sauna. In 12 minutes she had feeling in her fingers and toes for the first time in 2 1/2 years. And, she had used another portable sauna a dozen times, an hour at a time, and never had that feeling in her fingers and toes. Because see, when you buy a supplement, you look at the dose. You buy a vitamin C, for example, it’s got 100 mg. That’s nice. You find another one that’s got 250, 500, a 1000 milligrams which is 1 gram. Well, people, when they look at saunas and they say, “Oh, OK, well, this one's cheaper.” Yeah, well, the Relax Sauna is 1500 watts and most of them are only 1000 watts.

And, there is a beautiful review on I don’t even know the man. He did this in February 2017. And, he said that he bought an Amazon sauna for 250 bucks and it only increased core temperature a half a degree. And, the heart rate variability that he talked about and Sherry Rogers's book and pub Sherry Roger’s wrote a book called Detoxify or Die. And, in the book, she pointed out research on the far-infrared ray. She had dozens of patients who were chemically sensitive having big problems, environmentally sensitive and having many health problems. And, were, basically, left for dead by the establishment physicians. You know, and, in all due diligence, they tried to help but they were not able to because they did not have the tools. And, Sherry Rogers was something like a functional or an integrative medicine doctor and she used far-infrared saunas. And, boom, she got them all back to be in healthy lifestyles. So, there’s a lot of research stemming back probably from the 60s and 70s from Japan initially. Germany, you know China, talking about what far-infrared can do, between 4 and 14 microns is the name.

So, this guy on tried to replicate what the research said far-infrared saunas will do. And, all the heart rate variability tests failed for the cheaper saunas, the $250 sauna, and, then, the $500 Amazon sauna. And, they only increased core temperature 1/2°. So, here he is, really believing in far-infrared ray. So, he says, “Okay, there’s a couple saunas out there that sell for higher. I’ll buy the Relax Sauna. It’s 1500 watts. And, that was a whole lot more than a 1000 watts.” That was his deciding factor. He didn’t realize that the big difference between the Relax Sauna is that the technology using the semiconductor chip technology you mentioned that took 10 years for the Relax Sauna to figure out how in the world to do, that that technology creates about 95, 98% far-infrared ray by filtering out the near and the mid which do not resonate with the cells in your body. So, the more far you have the more effective it is.

So, if you use the simple math, the Amazon sauna at 1000 watts, 36% for the generic carbon impregnated filters, then there’s the cloth, the corrugated plastic in there and laminated plastic, the energy emitted by those is only about 360 watts. And the Relax Sauna is 1500 watts at 98%. So, that’s about 1400 watts. The Relax Sauna uses the tent as a mirror. And, that’s another secret to why the Relax Sauna doesn’t cost 10, $12,000. We use the tent as a mirror.

A cat needs to lie in the sun, not in the shade. Not that they need to, they don’t lie in the shade. They lie in the sun because, then, they absorb the far-infrared light. And, it’s a very, very beautiful experience to watch the process. Well, I’ve talked a bit, I’ll let you say something and then I’ll continue along train of thought because I just talked about the two. You know, there is much more, there’s more that makes the Relax Sauna unique. All saunas are great. You know, if you got an inexpensive Amazon sauna, I used one for a year, I loved it, but, there was a night and day difference in effectiveness and the efficiency and the quickness when we finally got the Relax Sauna in a year after I’d been using the other sauna.

Matt -  I love it. Yeah, thank you for all that. That was all great. I made about 10 different points of, basically, just different roads that we can go down. But, I’ll just make a lot of the points really quickly here. You know I like the way that you said…

Phillip - Well, the way that I work, the lingering strands that come to us, I just pop onto them. I call them a nudge. And, then I just say, “ OK,. “ And, then, I get off course and it’s always amazing how we always get everything covered by the end of the 60 minutes. We come about-face. You know, sometimes, it drives people crazy. “Well, he didn’t finish.” Well, just hang in there. In a moment, it will come and all your questions will be answered. I’ve just observed this. This is how it works through me and I just love it. I just love the way it works because, you know, you get so much and then you have to take a break.

Matt - Yeah. I definitely agree. And, like, I’m bored with most interviews. So, I like doing a different kind, really, of interviewing style. I like to kind of confuse the guest and, kind of throw them off, you know, kind of go like they think I’m going this way and I just go at a 90° angle and see how they react. You usually get better answers that way.

Phillip - Right. Exactly. Exactly.

Matt - I like what you said about the lymphocytes. I used to work three jobs and just work teaching, delivery driver, all these things, just talking nonstop all day. And, I think a lot of people are in that boat where they are telemarketing or doing demos at Costco or Whole Foods or whatever. And, just using their throat a lot and talking. And, I would get sore throats all the time until I got into sauna therapy. And, to me, that’s my number one use of it. If I just have talked too much nothing works on my throat like that. And, of course, I combine different herbal sprays and stuff that I use, But, mainly I use the infrared on regenerating my vocal cords. It’s incredible how that works.

Phillip - We have a lady in LA who said her voice was raspy for years and after she started using the Relax Sauna, I mean she had a wooden sauna for five years and then when she moved she gave it to her son because she said, “I’m not going to put that back together again, no way.” And, so, what she did was she bought the Relax Sauna. when she first saw it at the Conscious Life Expo, she looked at it and said, “No way.” But, somehow I convinced her it was different. You know, the Relax Sauna was more effective and she ended up buying one. And, she said that her voice returned to normal and she’s been a strong proponent of the Relax Sauna for about 10 years now. Because it is magical. It’s not a wooden sauna. It’s far more because the technology, see, the wood saunas are great and I love them but the wood does not generate any, the pretty wood does not generate the far-infrared ray.

You look at the technology of the generators of the far-infrared ray. And, the way for Infrared ray works, you have to be in front of it, like a cat lays in the sun, not in the shade. And, so, people look at the Relax Sauna and it’s got a fan in there that’s blowing the heat off of the radiators just like a computer has a fan. Without a fan, our computers would not work because the semiconductor chips or the computer chips get hot. If they get too hot, it’s dangerous. So, it stops. So, we have a fan in there. It has nothing to do with the far-infrared ray except that it keeps the semiconductor chips cool so that they can continue to generate the far-infrared ray energy.

And, the uniqueness of the Relax Sauna to any other sauna I’ve seen, and there may be a couple, but we use the tent as a mirror. Because far-infrared light, they don’t teach you this in seventh grade and I don’t just don’t understand why they don’t teach you, that far-infrared light or far-infrared energy is a light from the sun. And, even though it’s invisible, it is still reflected by a mirror. And, because it’s a light, it goes 186,000 miles per second. That’s pretty fast. And, even though it’s a light, but it still, you know, x-ray goes through clothes. Well, the Relax Sauna, the far-infrared energy, it also goes through clothes. And, we all know this. We all know this because, on a cold day or a hot day, if we’re wearing a sweater and our back is to the sun and we feel all this so wonderful warmth in our whole body, the deep penetrating warmth or, if we’re lying on the beach, we feel the deep penetrating warmth. We, also, feel the hot on our skin. That’s the ultraviolet light. The sand gets hot from ultraviolet light.

But, how do the turtle eggs hatch? How do the turtle eggs hatch? The far-infrared light goes through the sand and resonates with the water in turtle eggs and activates the embryo to grow into a turtle. Isn’t that amazing? No one else talks about this. It’s something I’ve sort of just recognized. But, the sand does not get hot in between those 2 inches, but the water in the turtle egg does pulsate. That gets the turtle egg hot, hot enough where it starts to process the of growing into a turtle. And, the same thing with snakes, with snake eggs or any reptile eggs, well, they got an agreement with the sun. It’s just amazing. They put their eggs about 1 1/2 to 2 inches below the surface so that the sun’s energy will reach it and the predators won’t be able to get it.

Matt - That’s incredible. Have you heard of the book, Reverse Aging by Sang Wang? He’s a Japanese fellow. I read it years ago and there’s a whole section on infrared, and far-infrared. And, my favorite part of the book is he that he said that sleeping next to a partner, you actually live longer. Because you are reflecting each other’s far-infrared waves back-and-forth. Whereas, if you’re just single and just sleeping alone, you’re sending these out and they’re not being reflected back at you. I think the reflecting nature of far infrared is pretty fascinating.

Phillip - Well, I met both he and his wife for 2 or 3 times in a row after at the Florida chiropractor conferences in the early 2000‘s when we first started selling the sauna. And, I do have His book and I had nice conversations with both of them. And yes, this is very true. And, far-infrared energy is very miraculous because we are all far-infrared light beings. And, so, when we hug someone, we are generating far-infrared light.

You know, probably about 10 years ago, 12 years ago, a number of young women in their early 20s would say, they get in the Relax Sauna at conferences and they said, “Oh my gosh, I feel like my grandma’s hugging me.” And, then, about five or six years later, you know, people, they walk by the Relax Sauna. Maybe they already have a wooden sauna. Maybe they know nothing about the healing benefits of saunas and what it can do. And, they snub their nose. And, so the easiest way to get a person in is saying it feels like your grandma is hugging you. And then, I have to qualify it. And, you know, one person said, “Not my grandma!”  And I said, “Oh.” So, it feels like your loving grandma is hugging you.

Matt - There are always exceptions.

Phillip - Yes, there are always exceptions, you know, And, then I also say, it’s like a cross between your loving grandma and basking in divine love. And, that’s a pretty good description. And, then I had a couple of others. It’s like being in the womb. It’s like being on the beach in Hawaii or it’s like being in the presence of a Chi gong master. And, Dr. Bill Apkinar wrote a book that I talked about No Sweat Know Sweat, The Definitive Guide to Reclaiming Your Health. And, in the book, well, not in the book, but he’s the one who talks about the history of sweating and what it can do. And, what he said to me is that these other saunas are not going to increase heat shock proteins nearly as much as the Relax Sauna does. And, he calls the Relax Sauna a Chi Gong Sauna because he is a Chi Gong Master. He’s an oriental medical doctor. He’s an acupuncturist. He’s a medical doctor in New York City, Long Island. He uses ozone therapy in his practice. And, he was voted Best Cancer Doctor in New York City in 2007. So, he comes with a litany of titles. He’s accomplished a lot in his life and he knows what he’s talking about.

And, he knows what he’s talking about. And, he knows that the Relax Sauna is, by far, the most innovative far-infrared or infrared sauna out there because it increases the Chi because of the fact that we have 95 298% far infrared energy. And, again, it’s like for 10 years, I am communicating this to people and I don’t get any response. People can’t relate to the fact, “Oh, so it’s 95, 98% far-infrared energy, and the other sauna is only 36%.” And, it’s as if they didn’t even hear me. You know, I’m saying you're getting five times more far-infrared ray energy. It’s like the 1000 mg of vitamin C is more effective than 100 mg. And, sometimes, 100 milligrams of vitamin C won’t work. It won’t do what you want it to do. But, a gram will. You know, if you take them every hour, you’re always going to have vitamin C. That’s going to help for dealing with the flu and stuff like that.

But, at any rate, it’s the article that I finally talked about, the review of the Relax Sauna on, that opened up the floodgate. He said the other saunas cannot increase core temperature, only a half a degree. So, here’s something that’s measurable. The Relax Sauna increases core temperature 3.2° in 25 minutes. And, Dr. Paul Anderson has a cancer clinic in Washington state in the Seattle area and he can increase core temperature 4.2° with his cancer patients when they are doing IV vitamin C therapy. And, I also met a man at the Paleo Conference in Austin about two years ago and he came to me a year later and said, “Hey, the Relax Sauna will increase core temperature 3.2°, the same, all the time. And, the gym saunas, they are not able to do that.

And, that’s the key, increasing your core temperature. Hippocrates, “Find me a way to create fever or sweat and I will cure disease.”

Matt - Yeah, that’s amazing. I can definitely relate because I’ve used tons of the wooden saunas. I used to sneak into gyms with my friends and use theirs back in the day when I was a degenerate. And, it definitely took forever for me to heat up. And, then, when I bought my own, one of yours, it was like, within 15 minutes, I have a sweat. And, I noticed too. And, I told people this. And, one of my friends, you know, former mentors, colleagues, Robert Casarez said this. too.

Phillip - Oh. yeah. He’s great.

Matt - It’s interesting, yeah. And, he said, the pores, if you haven’t sweat in like years, like a lot of Americans or people who just have an indoor existence, if you haven’t sweat and pores are just locked shut, this has been my experience, you know because it was just a philosophy he shared. And, I’m like, “Well, let’s see if this is true.” And, to me it was true. Like, if I don’t use the sauna for months, like 3, 4 or 5 months, and I go in, it takes so long to start sweating. But, if I do it consistently like once or twice a week, like, consistently, then I’ll sweat faster. So, I think that’s a question people probably ask you, too,  “Why aren’t I sweating?” But, if they haven’t sweat in, like, years… Right? …it’s like their pores are so clamped shut you have to train your body to, like, sweat again. Right?

Phillip - Well, Dr. Roger Billaca, he used to be the Director of Medical Operations for NASA for 10 years and he has a clinic in Fort Collins, Colorado called Tri Life Clinic. And, he says that when he uses, when his patients using the Relax Sauna finally, after 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 4 weeks, or, whenever, those who were really ill, once they start sweating there’s a remarkable change in their healing journey. They start healing much much more quickly. And so, what’s interesting is that my ex-wife would be putting people in the Relax Sauna all the time and she never found someone she couldn’t make sweat. She was a midwife for sweating. And, one lady took 51 minutes to get her to sweat. And, as soon as she started sweating, you had three doctors at a medical conference with their credit cards ready to buy one.
Matt - I appreciate that. I made a little list of those. That’s super cool. And, actually, one question before we start. I noticed that you have a black model that’s a little more expensive, like two different versions. Are the materials the only difference, is that the difference?

Phillip - The radiator is exactly the same. The chair is exactly the same. The poles are exactly the same. It’s the tent that is made out of a more reflective material. And we do get better results with the black sauna. And, it does work a little bit more effectively, maybe it reflects better. It’s thicker. It’s embroidered. It looks beautiful. It’s got an embroidered emblem on it. And, so, if you were willing to pay $5000 for a piece of art and, you know, it’s 2‘ x 3‘, one for $200 just doesn’t turn you on, then this is the prestige sauna. But, in terms of the $1300 sauna, it works 4 to 10 times more effectively than any other sauna. So, if the Relax Black Sauna works 5% more effectively, it’s negligible compared to the other saunas. But, if you have money and you want the best, it’s worth the difference. If you don’t have a lot a whole lot of money, it’s not worth the difference, $2000 to $1300. Maybe if it sold for $1500 or $1600 it might be worth it, but not at $2000.

Matt - OK. Awesome. Thanks for that. Yeah, I was wondering. And, you also have a lie-down one and then some lamps. That’s kind of cool. Because I always, like I have red light shining down on me during all the interviews. And, that’s something to just put in the workplace. Right? A little table lamp.

Phillip - The table lamp is incredible. I mean, I used to sell the Hitachi Twin-head Electric Massagers at conferences before we discovered the Relax Sauna. And, I sold 40 in a weekend. The Relax Sauna Far Infrared Table Lamp can do wonders. It can do wonders. It can return eyesight, I mean it did. It returned hearing. It got rid of tooth pain. It got rid of infections.

One lady put the Relax sauna table lamp on. She would inject B12 shots into her thigh. And, she put the Relax Sauna Lamp on and in real-time all the blue marks, all the purple marks, disappeared. And, she was totally blown away.

Matt - Wow. That’s amazing.

Phillip - The lie-down sauna, some people love to lie down. It works just as well at 1000 watts instead of 1500 watts. But, it works just as effectively and it’s great. And, it puts any other lie-down sauna to shame. We had one lady, she had a $2,300  lie-down sauna she had bought from another company. She sold it to me for a $200 rebate on the Relax Sauna lie-down sauna. She said there was a night-and-day difference.

Matt - Wow. Super cool. I love it. Well, let’s see. One of our first questions here is, “What are the benefits of a far-infrared sauna over a steam sauna?”

Phillip - The far-infrared energy is energy medicine. The energy pulsates with your water molecules. It increases your core temperature. Steam saunas only get you hot on the outside. They don’t have that energetic effect and it will be very, very difficult to feel the Chi within your body moving with the steam sauna or with any, you know, with a Finnish sauna as well.

Matt - Awesome. Yeah, I definitely agree. Do you suggest using binders after the sauna, like activated charcoal, chlorella, clay?

Phillip - Those are, you know, many many options. Many naturopathic doctors, many functional medicine doctors, you know, or nutritional consultants will recommend those things. And, each will have a different protocol. And, they are all good, they’re all good. I’ve had my health food store now since 1980 and i’ve been into fasting, intermittent fasting. I didn’t even know what that was called and I just started doing it naturally. And, there are many things that you can do. There’s bentonite clay, there are all these things that you can do and I recommend them all.

Matt - Awesome. I used to make a drink. My favorite sauna drink was lemon and, basically, lemon and ginger. And, sometimes I put cayenne pepper in there. But, just lemon and ginger drink is super refreshing in the sauna.

Phillip - My favorite drink is the Master Cleanser, the lemon juice, maple syrup, cayenne pepper. I’ve done 10-day, 13-day fasts on that, 3-day fasts, 7-day fasts. I love that. I love that drink.

Matt - I do a lot of maple syrup.

Phillip - Yeah. I do a lot of ginger, too. I love ginger and turmeric.

Matt - Awesome. That’s awesome, a lot of great stuff. What about electrolytes and minerals.? I had a lot of questions on that. Shouldn’t you be concerned about sweating out your minerals? Or, you can just put some salt in your water, right? Good clean salt.

Phillip - Celtic sea salt, Himalayan salt, Real Salt or the trace mineral formula by Trace Mineral Company or any good mineral supplement, you know, are all recommended. And, again, you know, I give people the choice. It’s probably a good idea. My ex-wife used to get on my case, too, always, I didn’t do it very much because I eat pretty healthy. And, every so often, I would get a leg cramp. I said, “OK, it’s time for me to start doing the minerals.”

Matt - It’s amazing how much they run the body. I’ve been studying just magnesium for years. I take mega, megadoses of magnesium, getting amazing results. So, what are your thoughts?

Phillip - Magnesium is number 12, by the way. And, 12 is a special number. Yeah, magnesium, the periodic table number is 12. So, it’s very special because of that.

Matt - That’s super cool. Heavy metals, I had 3 questions with heavy metals. How to get rid of heavy metals from vaccines that are sitting in the brain and in the body. Does sweating help to remove any of them from the brain? Do you use binders? And, then, “Do 5G towers interact with heavy metals?”

Phillip - Well, I’ve heard that aluminum in the body from the chemtrails and from the deodorants and all. The aluminum acts as an antenna to make the Wi-Fi from the cell phones or the Wi-Fi or even the 5G to activate it more, to make it stronger in being a poison to the body. And, as a poison we detoxify. You know, we had Karen Russell back in 2007, in November, bought a Relax Sauna from us at one of the medical conferences. And, within two months, within one month, all her heavy-metals were back to normal. Now, I think it was because she had tried all these other things but they were dormant and couldn’t finish the job. And, so, within a month, her mercury and lead levels were normal for the first time in 2 1/2 years on her monthly tests. And, so, we did test someone after. The people who made the Relax Sauna in Taiwan said, “Oh really? It gets rid of heavy metals? We didn’t know that.”

And, so, they did a little test of their own, not really a scientific thing but a man, you know, urinated, you know, before he got in the sauna. And, then, he went in the sauna for 15 minutes. And, the next time he gave urine, there were way, way more heavy metals in the urine than there was before. So, it’s going to get the heavy metals to go out through the urine and the sweat and the colon. And, so, I don’t have any proof of this. It’s very hard to do proof but we have many, many doctors and all the sauna companies, you know, they all report they’ve had many, many anecdotal instances where people don’t have heavy metals nearly as much as they did. So, I think it’s a good, good…, it’s not going to hurt, it’s not going to increase heavy metals. And, I’d say 90% more, it’s going to reduce them.

Matt - I love it. It’s my understanding that phthalates and even radioactive particles leave through the sweat. I know here’s some research on this.

Phillip - Yes. Dioxins and plastics. And, Dr. Sherri Rogers, who talks about this in her book, Detoxify or Die, said the ONLY way she knows to get plastics out of the body or phthalates is through saunas, the far-infrared saunas. It’s the only way she knows in 2001. So, “Oh, my gosh. The far-infrared saunas can do wonders.” Because again, it increases your core body temperature. Finnish saunas are great. They have a lot of benefits. I have nothing wrong with them. I highly recommended them. But, if you want to do what Dr. Sherry Rogers called the Superior Sauna, then you want the far-infrared sauna because they can do so much more than the regular saunas can. And, a lot of people who are touting the Finnish saunas, they don’t quite realize that. But, that’s OK. Finnish saunas are great. And, they’ve proven in a 20-year study that shows that those Finns who do sweating, I mean, the difference is phenomenal between those who do it 4 to 7 times a week compared to those who only do it 1 time.

Matt - I’ve seen that research. Yes. It’s very real. And, I think I’ve said this story before on my podcast but years ago I was volunteering at a Run for the Cure, like a cancer fundraiser. And, it was just such like an LSD moment to look at the table, the picnic table. And, they had plastic filtered, probably tap water, tap water in plastic bottles with UV light, sunlight, not covered. Just these plastic bottles that people were walking up and just, “Here. Free water, guys. It’s free cancer.” It’s plastic. It’s like people don’t make the connection that they make, in the conventional world, that plastic causes, I mean it’s a primary cause of cancer because of the dioxins.  

Phillip - Right, yeah.

Matt - I think that can be the cause of a lot of underlying issues in people. Right? Hormonal especially.

Phillip - Well, this one man, he had a Relax Sauna. And, then, he got into a swimming pool. He got the chlorine which is another name for dioxins in his body and he was nauseous. 10, 20, 15 minutes in the Relax Sauna all the nauseousness was gone. Yeah, the dioxins or the phthalates that most people are probably not totally aware that those are plastics. And, the chlorine and fluorine that are in the body that need to get out, the far-infrared saunas through increasing the core temperature are one of the best ways to get them out. And, the Relax Sauna, of course, works so much more effectively. And, again, this seems like hearsay when I say that, especially when you own a $5000 wooden sauna.

The doctor, well she’s not a doctor, she owns a clinic in colon hydrotherapy and hyperbaric oxygen. Her name is Rebecca Harder. And, she wrote this book called Gastra Girl. And. in the book she’s got eight pages on the Relax Sauna. And, she relates her story, “I’ve been selling wooden saunas for 10 years in my clinic.” And, you know, she’s got a beautiful pristine clinic made out of wood and everything. And, she said, “I turned my nose up at the Relax Sauna every year I saw them at the conferences.” And, then, she got in the Relax Sauna and in three minutes, she was sold because she could feel the difference. She could feel the difference, instant relaxation.

And, Dr. Young, you know, again Dr. Robert O. Young. for 20 years he had been promoting wooden far-infrared saunas. And, he gets in the Relax Sauna. Boom. Sold. And, he and his partner have been very very strong in promoting the Relax Sauna for a very for many years. And, they love it.

Matt - That’s awesome. Let’s see, suggested frequency and duration of use, and how many sessions per week works best?.

Phillip - Well, two or three times a week is minimal, you know, I use it almost every day. I use it, you know, like I skip a morning or two every month. Like two days ago I didn’t use it. I didn’t feel like using it. I didn’t want to use it. I didn’t use it.

But, I usually use it every morning. First thing I get up. I drink about 12 ounces of water. I get in the sauna. At eight minutes, I’m sweating. In 15 minutes I’m dripping. In 20 minutes I’m drenched. I get out. I drink some water, maybe take a shower, and then go back and do the same thing all over again, or maybe not take a shower, go in after I’ve been out for 2 or 3 minutes. A friend of mine, she’ll drink water constantly while she’s in the sauna and do it for 30, 40 minutes. Most people, 15, 20 minutes will give you a great sweat. But, what’s really exciting about the Relax Sauna, we go to a lot of Autism Conferences also. Kids get in and in 5 to 7 minutes, all the anxiety is gone.

And, so, you can use the Relax Sauna with your clothes on. And I have put over 125,000 people in the Relax Sauna over the last 18 years. And, people with arthritis pain of 12, any other kind of pain of 8, 9, 10, 12, 6, 4, 3, it goes down. Sometimes we get a 12 to go down to a 0, in their clothes because far-infrared goes through clothes. A man in Austin, Texas had a motorcycle accident four years ago. He’s been in constant pain of 6, 6 1/2 for 4 years. He got in the sauna and it got reduced to 3 in 10 minutes. He bought one. You know. And, then he texted me, “It does work. It works.”

Matt - That’s really cool. This is actually, a good question that it made me think of. Someone asked if you don’t shower immediately, does the existing sweat soak back into the skin? And, I thought about that over the years. I think, like Wendy Myers, some other people in the health space, said like they run to the shower after. But, it doesn’t really make sense. Right, that they would absorb in that quickly.

Phillip - Again, that ugly fear monger rears its ugly head and makes you afraid you’re going to absorb the toxins. I took rebounding training back with L. Carter. And, the lymphatic system is a one-way valve. And, when you’re excreting sweat, when you’re out-flowing, getting rid of sweat, you’re not going to absorb the toxins back into the body. You know, it just makes no sense in the world. You know, as a matter of fact, one colon hydrotherapist said, “Phil, it’s best to wait 20 minutes before you take a shower because your bodies going to continue to detoxify for another 20 minutes.” Now, you can towel dry. And, people who don’t have showers at their offices, I said, “No, the best, the ideal situation is to wait 20 minutes, especially, if you only do it 2, 3 times a week. Sometimes I shower right after. Sometimes I don’t.

But, no fear. Oh, absolutely! Get rid of that monster. Throw it out the window. You know, you’re not going to absorb toxins. And, if you are, you’re not going to absorb more than 5 or 2%. And you know it’s OK. You know? Fear is crazy! My belief is you’re not going to absorb toxins because your lymphatic system is in outflow mode. Now, I know that if you put aloe vera on your body or any kind of cream, and you warm your body up, like if you absorb ozone, you get in the sauna.

And, a lot of people do ozone saunas. They use the Relax Sauna and they use, either a professional model with an oxygen tank or they use just a little cheaper sauna that takes it from the air. And, we sell ozone saunas for people who want them. You know, we can sell them. And, there’s a couple of ozone companies that sell the Relax Sauna, as well, because the heat will increase the absorption of the ozone. You open up the pores. And, there’s a guy who does some kind of bicycle who uses the Relax Sauna afterward. I mean the Relax Sauna is used during IV therapy by Dr. Anderson at his cancer clinic in Washington state. And, a lot of people who do IV therapy, they can’t get the needle into a vein. And, they put people in for 5, 7 minutes in the Relax Sauna and then they can do it.

And, the beauty of the Relax Sauna is that you use it with your clothes on for 5 to 7 minutes to get rid of pain and inflammation. And, it’s instant. I once had chills. I got in and, boom, the chills were gone in two minutes. Another time, once in the last 18 years, I was having an asthma attack. I got in for 3 or 4 minutes, totally gone. One of the best things in the world for the lungs, one of the best things in the world for the lungs is a far infrared sauna. It helps oxygenate.

And, that’s the key for all this coronavirus. This one doctor says, “You know, in the emergency room, I’ve never seen anything so close. It’s altitude sickness,” he says. “And, what they need is: is they need oxygen.” They need to be oxygenated. So, we’ve been selling oxygen products. I mean, Ed McCabe wrote a book called Oxygen Therapies and Flood Your Body with Oxygen. And, chlorine dioxide, the MMS by Jim Humble, is one example of a very, very concentrated, something that I don’t do unless I’m very very conscious of. But, the oxygen products, the Oxy cleanse, the Oxy lift, the Oxy caps, The magnesium peroxide and the chlorine dioxide will oxygenate your cells. And, that’s very very important. And the Relax Sauna will augment these things and the Relax Sauna, you know, will create nitric oxide in the body and ATP and the nitric oxide. Just by the name oxide, I think that oxygenates the cells and that creates loads of oxygen. And, the healthy bacteria will thrive. And, the anaerobic bacteria will die in the presence of oxygen.

So, you know, in the first 2, 3 days of a flu, using the Relax Sauna is highly, not the Relax Sauna but using the sauna, is highly recommended, highly recommended by Med Cram 46, 47 and 55. They all recommend saunas. You know, this is a medical group explaining what the coronavirus does.

And, I’m sitting in here saying, “You know, I’ve been into holistic health since 1971 when I got into fasting after I had a kundalini experience after I had an out of body experience two years before. And, so, you know, I was really sensitive back then. And, it’s like there’s so many, Dr. Brownstein, Dr. Rowan, they say, “Hey.” Dr. Apkinar, they all have solutions and they are healing 99% to 100% of the people coming to them. They are not dying and they’re recovering. And, “Oh my gosh! The establishment drives me crazy. And, they’ve been doing that for 50 years.”

Matt - Yeah, that’s all great stuff. And, you made me think of a study. I did a solo show, just with me talking all about the coronavirus and my thoughts on it. And, there was this study I found called Coronavirus Disease 2019 on And, one of the methods, you might’ve seen this, they used to inactivate the coronavirus in the blood was with heat, just heat alone. And, you can mix that with methylene blue and UV light which I recommended. Visible light, which is a photo-sensitizer, that methylene blue stuff. Like, just light therapy alone. Like, that’s my top anti-viral viral. Like I’ll use oregano oil and different things. But, even if this thing is like a real threat, which I don’t think it is. Oregano oil, heat, light are good. I mean, to me, I am good at least, you know?

Phillip - Dr. Apkinar recommends ozone infused with ultraviolet light and then that intravenously, then the Relax Sauna. You know, the light and the heat, the infrared heat and the ozone, the oxygen. Hey, people are even having a lot of success with vitamin C doses every hour, vitamin A, vitamin D. I mean I’ve driven myself crazy for the last week. Instead of doing work and writing and working on my book, I’m listening to every single video I can on the coronavirus. I mean I am almost beside myself because the whole thing is like worse than a horror fiction film. I mean people are running around, they’re like they’re chickens with their heads chopped off. They’re crying, “Chicken Little the Sky is Falling!” And, hey, everything is fine. You know, it’s like the flu. Maybe it’s worse. Maybe it’s not. But, alternative health, they can help you. People won’t die. People die of the flu every year. It’s the same amount last year as this year. Maybe a little bit more. Maybe a little bit less.

You know, how many deaths are caused by sickness? I don’t think that’s changed. You know, because it seems like they are trying to call everything, you know, and the data is being manipulated because politicians who have decided to do shutdowns, you know, if it’s turned out that this was all based on false science or inaccurate data, they’re going to look bad. So, they’re trying to protect themselves and it’s getting worse. When all else fails, tell the truth.

Matt - Yeah. Alex Jones is funny. He’s a comedian if anything. He’s probably…

Phillip - Yeah. If you don’t laugh you’re going to cry.

Matt - He’s had some great shows, recently, talking about Fauci and how he was kind of the cause of all this and, you know, and NIH. And, you know, how everyone’s all…

Phillip - Yeah, I heard that myself

Matt - And, it’s a big show.

Phillip - Yeah. Like as Foster Gamble showed in his movie, Thrive. Follow the money. Follow the money. And, then, for some reason, little minds want to control other people. You know, that’s weird, weird, weird.

Matt - Yeah. And, I was talking to my friend, Josh, just the other day about the silver lining. Like the good that came out of this, to me,is that I see more people outside. And, I’m less on Instagram and social media. I am going outside more, even myself, and that’s a big benefit. Yeah, and there’s that aspect. And, people are becoming more aware of their health. I have a supplement line. I sell vitamin E and K27 and my sales are increasing and I’m doing well. I’m not fear-mongering, like saying you need my supplements to be healthy, but I’m just talking about health in general. And, people are just more open, right, to health right now.

Phillip - Right. Exactly. Yeah. I mean you have to laugh. And, there is a silver lining. And, things are happening the way they are happening  And, so, here is a great spiritual lesson I learned. Instead of complaining about what isn’t or wasn’t, you just accept what is and take it from there. And, to me that was profound. I realized it about six months ago. Instead of complaining about what wasn’t, to just accept what is. Like, in my company, well. here are all these problems and dot, dot, dot.… Yeah, let’s pretend we just landed here, and let’s fix it. We don’t want to complain about it because complaining, we can do the research later, let’s just, “What do we need to do to get things running smoothly?”

Matt - I like that. Yeah, I think homesteading is a big part of it and planting fruit trees. But, just homesteading and getting more self-sufficient, that’s what I’m working on.  Like, I got goose and some chickens and a greenhouse and stuff.

Phillip - Yeah, and you’re having the time of your life. And, that’s great.

Matt - Yeah, and I’m trying to inspire others.

Phillip - Well, you know, it’s funny. People will complain about the Relax Sauna and, see, we are the only portable sauna that does not have any plastic in it.

I was at a dentist's show, a biological dentist's show. One lady had not sweated in 10 years, another lady had not sweated in 20 years, and in 15 to 22 minutes they were both sweating. And, so, it’s a release. It’s like the inability of men to cry. You know, once you’re able to cry, you’re able to release. And, once you can release, You know, I like to say, the water has got to get out. You might as well laugh instead of cry.

Matt - I like that.

Phillip - Being in the sauna, is like laughing. Because, you know, one of the side effects of the Relax Sauna is joy. Joy and one of the others is a euphoria side effect. These are some things, you know, that just happens. You feel joyful. You feel mentally alert, spiritually tuned in. There’s a little extra pep in your step. You just feel alive, aware. And, this is why Dr. Bill Apkinar, author of the book No Sweat Know Sweat, why he says this is the Chi Gong Sauna because the Chi in your body is starting to be activated. And, the other saunas don’t have enough oomph. They don’t have enough far-infrared ray energy to do it. They’re great. They have a lot of benefits. I would never say not to do another sauna. I would never ever say another sauna is dangerous because of the EMF.

You know, Dr. Robert O. Young, who is quite famous for his book, The PH Miracle, says he’s never found a sauna where the EMF would interfere with the effectiveness of the far-infrared ray. And, the Relax Sauna, having 10 times more far-infrared energy then any other portable sauna and at least 4 or 5 times more far-infrared ray, people don’t realize there’s research in Japan that says that far-infrared antidotes the negative effects of EMF.

And, when we talk about EMF, household appliances can’t hold a candle to the danger of a cell phone or a Wi-Fi, let alone 5G. I know there’s a man. He’s a scientist. He’s out of  Pennsylvania. He bought a Relax Sauna from us about 12, 14 years ago. He says it’s as good as new. It’s one of the testimonies if you go to Relax Sauna testimonials - EMF. He’s one of the ones who talk about it. But, he said the energy of the Relax Sauna energy in terms of EMF, a cell phone is 100 times more dangerous.

So, I asked Dr. Klinghardt, you’re familiar with him?

Matt - Yes.

Phillip - His partner got a Relax Sauna from us at the Autism Conference. We let her take it up to the hotel room. And, in one session, her elbow pain that she had for a year was gone and it hasn’t come back. So, they bought a sauna from us in May. And, then, when Dr. Klinghardt was a guest speaker at a conference in Chicago two months later, the Psychotronics Conference, they bought another sauna because they have a location in London and a location in Seattle. And so, you know, she just totally, totally loves the sauna and says that Dr. K. has also used it. So, I asked Dr. Klinghardt, “Deitreik, when people, they carry a cell phone and they ask about the EMF in the Relax Sauna.” And, he said, “Yeah, I know.”

It’s like, you know, my blender, my juicer has 10 times more EMF. And, when I juice, I juice for 20 minutes. And, I’m like, you know like my chest is right in front of it and it’s okay. I never feel any repercussions from it. But the beauty in the relax sign it, it’s only EMF is by the feet. There is hardly any EMF because there’s no electricity above your knees.

But, a lot of times, people, you know, it’s like they have a measuring device. OK. And, the measuring device shows there is EMF. Well, that’s nice. You believe in your device or do you believe in your body’s ability and your attunement with your inner connection to realize that the far-infrared ray is not allowing the EMF to damage you because it’s an antidote for EMS.

I know there’s a musician in Philadelphia. He got in the sauna and he says. “I’m really, really sensitive to EMF.” But, his friends said, “Oh this is great.” And, he got in and said, “I can sense it, there, by the radiators, but it’s not getting in.” Because the far-infrared ray from the Relax Sauna radiators is preventing it. And so, I would say, that the Relax Sauna generators act as an EMF protector. And, there are 4 people who specialize, in Arizona and in LA, who specialize in helping you have a home that is free of EMF. And, they all have Relax Saunas in their homes. And, they all love it.

One lady, after she tested 4 people’s homes for EMF, and she still has a little device. She just clips it on. For extra protection, I'll just get one of these. But, she saw that 4 of her clients all had Relax Saunas. And, then she met us at a show and then she ended up buying one herself. And, she gave us a testimony. So it confounds me, the marketing ploys of other companies. And, they mean well. But, they don’t know what they’re talking about. You can probably elaborate on that. You’ve been in the Relax Sauna for a number of years and have you ever experienced any EMF damage?

Matt - No, not at all. I’m really glad you addressed EMFs because I think that’s the number one concern when they see your sauna. And then, the giant wooden ones, especially that are selling for 4 grand, 5. I’ve even seen $6000 wooden saunas. And, you know, there’s like 2 big names that people in the bio-hacking space sell. I think, you know, they market with “no off-gassing, no EMFs” But, it’s really, you’re just trying to sweat and get the job done. Why would you spend an extra 3, 4 grand? Like, for years, I would just throw a Sagano, or there are these different companies making these activated charcoal packs you get on Amazon.

Phillip - Right

Matt - You just throw those in the sauna and it absorbs all the POCs. You know, like all this psychodrama, and people who just so, you know, because there’s, like, all this fear about EMF and, just hysteria. And, I really like that you brought up that light is the antidote. Because I think it’s not only far-infrared light but just light in general. Like for me, it’s visible red, invisible red UV light and good water. If you have good water, good drinking water. You have magnesium in your red blood cells, you’re getting sufficient light hitting your tissues and your blood. Then, like you said, you’re resistant to EMF.

So, I think people just have the wrong philosophy of EMF. They just want to block everything and live like in a faraday cage. But, that’s not a way to live. You just want to get so strong that can resist these fields. And, you know, there are exceptions like if you’re in a big city like LA or San Diego or Austin or big, you know, like New York, then you have to take extra measures. But, you know, yeah, I’m glad you brought that up. I wanted to make this point real quick. Have you seen those liposomal products, like those detox kits? Most people know which one I’m talking about. It’s like a cube detox kit that sells for $1700. And, it’s liposomal glutathione and vitamin C. I just roll my eyes at this kind of stuff because you could spend just a grand on your sauna and drink good clean water and get a very similar effect, instead of having to buy a $1700 detox liposomal kit every month or 2 months or 3 months or whatever it is. I prefer protocols that it’s a one-time purchase. And, then, you can just use it forever. Yeah. That’s kind of what this sauna is to me. It’s, like, you do the protocols as much as you want after you invest.

Phillip - What people like about the Relax Sauna is the longevity. There are many people, there are probably a dozen interviews that I’ve done with people who had their saunas 10, 12, 14 years, even 16 years and say it works great. It works just like new. Sometimes the tents do wear out if you don’t treat them well after 4,5, 6 years like when you’re upholstering furniture. But, the radiators will last a long time. We say that they’ll last 5 to 7 years in a clinical setting. They had one set of Relax Sauna generators, it’s a double generator, in Taiwan for 9 years going 24/7. And, there was a power failure so they quit their experiment. But, it does go for a long time. They work well and, I mean the generators, themselves, cost $1000 for just the 2 generators. And, then, the tent and the chair and everything, you know, right now in 2020, they sell for $1300 online.

But, the Relax Sauna is not a $1300 sauna. It’s a $2000 sauna. It sells in Taiwan for $2000. So, the Relax Sauna is more comparable to the $4000, $5000 wooden saunas that are made, you know, well, in America, or not in America necessarily, but that are made with real wood, you know, and all that jazz. In the portable saunas, the $850 saunas, they are the same technology as the $250, $300, $400 saunas. They have carbon panels which are very primitive and only generate about 35%, 36% far-infrared ray. Some of the other saunas have, you know, whatever they have. They’re putting in near-infrared light bulbs. They’re putting in stones. They’re putting in other stuff. But, you know, it’s bells and whistles. It’s the far-infrared ray energy, the pure. We had this sauna with no changes for 20 years in the technology because, once we discovered it, We discovered it, And, we had some cosmetic changes, but not in the radiators, the radiators are the same semiconductors we’ve been using for over 20 years.

And, the company is 40 years old. And, also, the point you brought out about the tent, there’s a guy who’s got a Facebook page who doesn’t understand lab reports. And he’s bad-mouthing the Relax Sauna tent, saying it's full of toxins. It’s full of stuff. I said, “Oh, my gosh. He just says you don’t want one of these which is basically a form of slander and libel.” But, you know, “Hey, to each their own.” I believe that fake news, real news, it’s all the same. You have to decide what to believe and what not to believe. And, I don’t believe in belief.

Matt - Yeah. That was, actually, one of our Q & A questions. Like, Is there off-gassing of chemicals? What is the material made of? And, stuff like that.

Philip - We had a test. We tested the sauna tent. Now, here’s the way it works. You test in the laboratory for parts per billion of these volatile gases and 15 gasses measured in it. Then, they brought in the Relax Sauna. And, they took the Relax Sauna, they stuck it on for 30 minutes and as soon as the 30 minutes was over they measured the volatile gases in the laboratory. OK? Of 15, 8 went up and 7 actually went down. And, the difference was negligible in all 15 parts. So, what this guy on Facebook was saying, and he had a YouTube video before, I think, they took it down because was sort of like libel or slander and he said, “The Relax Sauna was dangerous! Look at all these volatile chemicals!” Well, the volatile chemicals were in the laboratory before. and here was no negligible difference. This is how people can interpret things. And, frankly, I think a carpet or the paint has more, you know, than the Relax Sauna.

Now, you know, we used to, for the first 4 or 5 or 6 years, we used to get the Relax Sauna then and no one ever, ever complained about any kind of smell. But, now, that we are selling so many Relax Saunas, we are getting them in, like, shortly after they’ve been made. And, it’s like a new car smell. It is made with nylon and it’s coated with a coating that has real silver in it. And, I think, they’re made by a company in Taiwan that makes spacesuits for NASA or something like that. So, it’s a very reputable company that makes the tents. And, all it is is nylon, nylon and that silver coating. And, anyone, I happen to like cotton and natural fibers and so I use cotton sweats. You know, but some people have, a lot of athletes, have nylon. So, the danger of their clothes is probably as dangerous as the Relax Sauna tent, which is nil. It is not at all. And, like what you said, you can just get those carbon packs and stick them in.

Matt - That’s what I like to do. I mean, I even do that in the wooden saunas I’ve used because they’re still, plastic speaker thing. It’s like with EMFs, I think that people, they get on you about the EMFs. I would bet, I would bet like a $1000, that they don’t put their phone in airplane mode when it’s in their pocket. That they have it on their lap when they’re driving. I see this with health nuts all the time. It drives me nuts. Right on the genitals, they rest the phone, all the time, this little metal box or right to their head. Right? They’re not always using the speaker and never, ever putting it to their head.

So, I think, yeah, people get kind of neurotic about different things and that’s why I post pictures of me eating a burger here and there and different things. Just to let people know, like, health is not just about being on everything. Like, you know, you have to let go. You have to go out with your friends and family. Have fun. Right? That’s what health is. It’s not being neurotic about EMF, you know, 5G and off-gassing. You’ll go crazy. I mean, we have solutions for EMFs. But, try not to micromanage your life because I think that’s not healthy. It’s like, you can be unhealthy trying to be healthy.

Phillip - I have no rules. I don’t believe in rules. Rules are temporary to get you to… See, I had a dream and I was told not to eat potatoes, tomatoes and mushrooms. This was in the early 70s.I wasn’t eating them anyway. And, then a couple of months later, I went to dinner with my mom and my aunt and two of them were in the salad. And, I just listened and I got a go-ahead. Eat them. So, you know, I ate them and I realized that was the consummation of the fact that my discipline was over. In other words, the fact that the discipline was over, I had to break the rule to be free of a rule controlling me. Because I don’t want to be controlled by anything but living in the moment and letting the direct connection with That-Which-Is guide my actions and attitudes and behavior. And, it’s just totally listening and having that absolute reliance on that inner guidance is what it’s all about. And, this thing about fear, you know, people would say… You know what’s 10 times worse than EMF? 10 times worse, 100 times worse. The fear of EMF.

Matt - I fully agree, fully agree. I think people who are getting sick with this virus should desist from being in fear because fear lowers the immune system.

Phillip - You got it. And, again, it’s going to… And, I am, like, aghast, OK?, at the behavior of people. I mean, you know, I don’t want to go into that right now. I don’t want to get myself into any kind of trouble, but the fear is like, I put it, it’s like from the King and I, “When I am afraid, whistle a happy tune.” I posted that on my Facebook page, “You guys got to start whistling. This is crazy.” You know, there’s something called Med Cram 46, Med Cram 47 and Med Cram 55, where they all talk about the benefits of sauna. In the first 2, 3 days of being sick with the flu or a virus, that’s the time when saunas can be extremely helpful.

And so, we’re getting phone calls, left and right, because even Dr. Apkinar who uses IV therapy, ozone and ultraviolet light, he says light and ozone and heat from far-infrared, those are three secret ingredients that will perform miracles. Dr. Robert O. Young, I’m not sure if you are familiar with him. He wrote the PH Miracle for alkalizing the body. And, again, I think he’s gotten incredible wisdom. And, he has been using wooden saunas and recommending saunas for probably 20, 30, 40 years, for all I know. And, he got a Relax Sauna at the Cancer Conference from us 5 years ago and he gave me a two-minute interview on the spot. And,  at the Cancer Conference in September, he gave me a 17-minute interview. And, he can explain why and how the Relax Sauna works so well. I mean, they really get the job done. They do. And, of the saunas that he uses, he’s got, you know, 10, $20,000 saunas, and he uses the Relax Sauna because it works quick. It does the job. It gets the job done, 30 seconds I’m sweating. I’ve been doing the Relax Sauna for 18 years now, almost every morning, so, I’ve been in the Relax Sauna at least 6000 times.

And, I do it for 20 minutes and have an incredible sweat. It takes me 30 seconds to feel warm and toasty, 8 minutes to start sweating, 15 minutes I’m dipping and 20 minutes I’m drenched. And, that’s the average. You know, some days it’s quicker. And, then what I’ll do. I’ll get out and drink some water and then I’ll come back and do another 20-minute sweat. And, those two towels on my sauna, they’re wet. I put a folded towel on the chair. I drape another towel over the chair and they are both soaked after a 20 minute, especially after two 20 minute sweats. And, on Spa Day for Phil, that’s the magic. I do it three times, Always doing water in between. Yeah, it’s magical. You feel like you’ve been at the spa for 9 hours in 1 hour.

Matt- I definitely feel that. I was going to ask you, too, about the towels because that’s something I was trying to figure out. So, you put a folded one on the chair under your butt that you’re sitting on. And, one over the chair. And, you can even put, like, hand towels on the foot things. Right? Because I know those can get hot.

Phillip - Exactly. And, you can put them on the floor of the tent. I sit in a half-lotus position 80% of the time in the sauna. Oh, and I duck my head a lot, too. I duck my head a lot. Sometimes, you see, we are a pro-choice sauna. We give you the choice to put your head in or out.

Met - Yeah, I used to sit completely inclosed and shut, you know, put something over the top.

Phillip - You don’t need to put anything over the top because it’s not the heat. It’s not the heat, it’s the light. After 10 years of using the sauna, you know, I would get too hot, like we talked about, and I would have to do all this exercise and move my chest and move my head to be able to handle it. And, finally, after 10 years I realized all I had to do was unzip the zipper. I call it sophisticated temperature control.

Matt - That’s awesome. Phil, do you want to do a quick rapid-fire Q&A.? We have like 15 questions. A lot of them are pretty simple but…

Phillip - Well, let me quickly finish the 3rd and 4th things that the Relax Sauna does, or the far-infrared does. Besides increasing microcirculation which helps for neuropathy, for arthritis pain, for getting rid of inflammation, for getting rid of scar tissue, for helping with Raynaud’’s syndrome and the microcirculation helps with the heart. The Mayo Clinic says all their heart patients should never use regular saunas because the heart has to race to find an equilibrium but far infrared saunas are actually great and very healthy for them.

The 3rd thing that the Relax Sauna does, and I had a lady who has $5,000 wooden sauna use the Relax Sauna for half an hour and come back to me and say, “After 8 to10 minutes, I experienced the deepest, most profound relaxation I have ever had in my life,” and, so, what the Relax Sauna does, and I’ve noticed this from day one, it activates the parasympathetic nervous system. And, so, it balances the feeling and thinking qualities within you. It gets you turned in and gets the fight or flight motion out of you. And, that’s why people say, ”I sleep better. I don’t have any anxiety. I feel turned in.” And then, the 4th thing that it does is, it activates the mitochondria to create ATP and nitric oxide so you feel energized.

But, the true energy, like I used to do caffeine, coffee, for 10 years. I quit when I was 22. I did it from age 12 to 22 and that was over 50 years ago, and, so that’s like a nervous energy. In the Relax Sauna you get down to the grounded point where you feel connected and as soon as you feel connected, all of a sudden you get energized by a real energy and that is the 4th thing that it does. So, let’s answer your questions now. I am ready.
Phillip - Well, you know, it’s funny. Like people will complain about the Relax Sauna tent. We are the only portable sauna that does not have plastic in it. We are the only one. All the other ones, as far as I can tell, they have corrugated plastic holding up their tents. Our tents pop up in 20 seconds. OK? There’s no corrugated plastic in our sauna tent and all the other ones do and they complain about the Relax Sauna. And, they complain about EMF. And, the corrugated plastic in their tent is probably… Anyway, I don’t know the data but I prefer to talk about the track record that the Relax Sauna has had in the United States for 18 years with over 800 video testimonies on YouTube with the 20 to 40,000 customers of the Relax Sauna all pretty happy. And, we are going strong and it works. It works. It cleanses and detoxes the body.

Matt - Have you had testimonials. I got questions about, “Does it help with weight loss, eczema, varicose veins, like spider veins?” You had any testimonials about those things?

Phillip - All of them. We’ve had three or four different people testify that they lost 15 to 100 pounds or more. One lady said she lost a pound a week for two years. Another lady lost about 85 pounds in six months or a year, I’m not sure. Another man whom I know, and I know all these people personally, lost a lot of weight as well. He was about 300 pounds. Now he’s about 182. And, not only that, it helped transform their whole diet. See? It’s just the tip of the iceberg, You start feeling healthier. Now you have the strength. It mobilizes you to be sensitive enough that, when you eat sugar it doesn’t feel good anymore, because you’re cleansing the body. So, now, you don’t want to eat sugar. You don’t want to eat white flour. You don’t want to eat foods that are deficient in nutrients. And, so, it’s a great effectiveness in terms of spider veins, yes, we’ve had good success with it, with varicose veins. The Relax Sauna, again, it increases the microcirculation so it gets rid of diabetic ulcers. It can get rid of Mrsa

We have a sister product that is the medical device. See, one of the radiators, alone, in the Relax Sauna is used in a stand-up lamp with 5 rollers on it and it’s a rollaway thing that you can put directly on a wound or a diabetic ulcer. And, this one lady who sells a $40,000 infrared sauna, she said she bought the Relax Sauna Sky Eye radiator and her mom was on antibiotics for eight months and could not get rid of the MRSA. And, in four weeks, 4 1/2 weeks, the Relax Sauna radiator, the Sky Eye Radiator which is a medical device and there are two of those radiators in the Relax Sauna but the Relax Sauna is not a medical device… OK? …so, this got rid of the MRSA and healed the wound in 4 1/2 weeks, after 8 1/2 months of antibiotics couldn’t do a thing.

Matt - I’ve seen the pictures. Those are wild.

Phillip - Yeah. And, diabetic ulcers and any kind of wounds, and even in the sauna,  you have diabetic ulcers, you get in the sauna, if you have a large one, really large like a 2”, or a 1 1/2”  oval, then just buy the radiator or try the table lamp. But the radiator is a professional model, is a medical device. You know, it’s been a medical device since 2006. And, it’s effective. The Relax Sauna radiator deserves the Nobel prize. What they did, what they accomplished, I mean, they plugged into some kind of a supernatural energy. I don’t know what they did. But, there’s no other radiator that can make you feel this good this quickly. And, it can do what it does.

Matt - That’s really interesting. And, I see you have Momentum98 and you can learn more about it. You have, like, a little brochure with all of the things that it does. Sometimes you can just sit there on the couch with it.

Phillip - was my original health food store. And, we still have the website up since 1980. And, for people who want to know the Relax Sauna, it’s You’ve got a code that they can use, don’t you, on  What’s that code?

Matt - Yeah, Blackburn. Blackburn and they save 100 bucks.

Phillip - Yeah, right. That will help them for economic reasons. It will also show us how effective this radio interview, well, not radio, this audio interview is. But, it’s going to make a big, big difference in your life. We give a 30-day money-back guarantee on it. And, I mean, it has transformed thousands of people’s lives and their health within a week or two. I mean people are amazed in 2, 3 days how much better they feel. And, you know that from your experiences. I mean, you told me. What did you tell me, you know, in a text the other day?

Matt - Yeah, just super relaxed. I mean the name is perfect, the Relax Sauna, because that’s the main effect I feel. I think because it’s mirroring those far-infrared wavelengths back on to me. But, the relaxation effect is multiplied compared to any other sauna I’ve used, including the wooden ones. Because, I think that’s an important point to make about the big, you know…  what are they? …usually hemlock wood, like Costco wooden saunas or whatever, is they’re not reflecting infrared. So, it’s just sending out from those panels. And, some of it’s hitting you, some of it’s not. Some of it’s just hitting the wood and just being absorbed, right,? It’s not reflecting back to you. So, it’s really inefficient.

Phillip - Yeah. You have to be in front of the panel for it to work. So, if you’re in a wooden sauna with a window in front of you you’re not getting any far infrared in that part of your body. And, if you’re in a two-person sauna and you’re sitting way over to one side, you know, on the right side, then the left side, it’s too far away to really make the impact that you want to make. And, so, that’s one of about a dozen reasons why the Relax Sauna is more effective. I told you the story about the lady who said she had never experienced such a deep, profound sense of relaxation, having owned a wooden sauna for five years and having been in it many times. But, it’s really funny. There’s a joke that I can tell on myself.

We’ve been selling the Relax Sauna at shows for about 8 years. This is about 10 years ago, and I asked one lady how she felt after she got out. And, she said, “Relaxed. And, then, 8 minutes later, I asked another lady who got out next, “How do you feel?” “Relaxed.” And then, still, hadn’t had an impression yet. When the third lady, 8 minutes later, came out and I said, “How do you feel?” And, she said, “Relaxed.” I said, “Oh shit, that’s why they call it the Relax Sauna! I never put two and two together. But, that’s sort of funny.

Matt - That’s hilarious. Sometime’s it’s just that easy.

Phillip-  Dr. Young, Robert O. Young keeps calling it the Real Sauna because it is real. It actually is real.

Matt  - I love it. Someone asked, ”Is it easy to fold up and put away between sessions?" They said they don’t have much space but it doesn’t take up that much space anyway. I have it in a corner in my bathroom.

Phillip-  2’8” by 2‘9“. But, if you do Beat the Clock on me, I can tear it down in 55 seconds.

Matt - That’s awesome.

Phillip - It takes about 2 to 3 minutes for me to pop it up and get it all set. And, about 55 seconds or a minute to tear it down, but that’s going at it really breakneck speed or whatever you want to say, but it’s really fast. It pops right up. I got a video on YouTube of me setting it up and tearing it down in about 2 or 3 of them in about 10 years ago.

Matt - Awesome. And, is it important for the head to sweat, someone asked?

Phillip - The head’s going to sweat with your head out. That’s the first thing that starts sweating. I’ve got pictures of people at the booth and they’ve got so much sweat, you know, especially bald men you can tell on, I mean the sweat is just pouring. I mean, and their heads out. And, again, I like to say, we are pro-choice. We are the only green sauna because we circulate the light because of the mirrors. And, we are the pro-choice sauna because we give you the choice to put your head in or out. Even if you’re 6’-6” tall, you can still duck your head, you know, maybe for 3 or 4 minutes. And, then you say, “Okay.” See, it will take 10 minutes for your sinuses to clear, but if you stick your head in, in two minutes it will clear.

Matt - I have experienced that. Definitely. I don’t know if this question is applicable, but what temperature does it heat to?

Phillip - That’s a great question, again, the fear-mongering thing comes in. A doctor will say that you want it to be 105°, you want it to be 100°, you want it to be 130°, you want it to be 140°, oh, you need it to be 170°. No, you want to be comfortable.

Maybe in the Finnish sauna, you want to get to be hot. But in a far-infrared sauna, the increase of core temperature, that’s where the magic happens. And, so, like I said, when you’re in the sauna and you’re too hot after 22 minutes, we have, I call it STC, sophisticated temperature control. You unzip the zipper. And, you find a temperature that you’re comfortable at. Now, I would say that within the first 3 to 5 minutes, your temperature in the Relax Sauna is between 130° and 140°. And, I have experienced, slowly but surely, it will creep up there and get to be 150°, 160°. And, you know, and it can get up to 169° OK? But, that’s too hot for me, you know, and so, you just unzip the zipper and make sure you’re comfortable.

And that’s the best thing. You want to be comfortable and then the magic of the increasing of the core temperature, that does the magic. So, if you’re too hot, unzip the zipper. And, the temperature does get up to a 130°, 140°. A lot of the people want it to get there but you don’t need to be a lot hotter. And, the temperature in the sauna is almost like a distraction. It does not matter what the outside temperature is. Now, maybe, in 1% of the instances it does, you know, I could be wrong, but, I currently believe. And, I’m not attached to any belief that I have.

You know, in every belief, if you have the letters L I E, so in every b e l i e f, there is a lie in every belief. It is only a temporary truth because belief is temporary. It means you don’t know. And, I am into knowingness and the only knowingness you have is in the present moment connecting to that still small voice within you and THAT knows everything. And, that’s what you truly are.

Matt - Awesome. Alright, Phil, last question, any warnings? Are saunas safe for young children, women that are pregnant, anything to be careful with?

Phillip - There was a Finnish study that came out and I was so grateful. It finally came out and said that pregnant women are okay in saunas. And, you know, the first year we were selling Relax Saunas, one lady came to the booth and said, “Boy, I did it through my whole pregnancy. It was great. The baby came out super, super healthy.” And in everywhere you read, and, even the naturopathic doctors, even the functional medicine doctors, they’re all brainwashed to believe that if you’re pregnant you shouldn’t go into a sauna. And, I don’t know, where in the world, that came from. But, I did discover, many, many years ago, that the only thing that’s the safe thing for you to do when you’re pregnant is to sit on your bed and twiddle your thumbs. Because everything else is dangerous. And, the lawyers have gotten into everything. I would say, consult your doctor and, hopefully, you have an alternative doctor. And, do it gingerly. If you love saunas. And, you’ve been doing saunas for years and you’re pregnant. Well, why change?

Now, if you have never done saunas, see, no company wants to be blamed for a miscarriage. No company would want to be blamed for a miscarriage so, as long as you accept responsibility and you listen to your body and do it gingerly, you should be okay. But, again, I’m not saying and would never say that you can do it. I’m saying that a Finnish study showed that you could. And, that would be fine. And, the far-infrared is a whole lot safer than a Finnish sauna because it also increases core temperature.

As for little kids, I say the Relax Sauna is good for anybody from age 1 to 100. And, if you’re 105, probably it’s still good. We go to Autism Conferences. We’ve probably been to 4 or 5 and the kids go in. They sit on their mom’s lap. They sit on their dad‘s lap. They’re age 3 or 4 or 5, age 8, 9, 10. You know, you don’t have to do a full sweat. They can go in for 5 or 10 minutes. They can keep the zipper open.

We have two switches. We have high dose and low dose. With one switch on, only one of the radiators is on. And, you could have the left radiator or the right radiator. Or, I always put them both on. But, if I went to meditate and not be brought back into my body, I’ll put one radiator on. And, I’ll be able to meditate for 25 minutes. But, if I meditate and I get out after 8, 10 minutes, I come back because it’s too hot. So, you can just put one radiator on and do a 25-minute meditation in there. It’s really not meditation. It’s a contemplation. Most people have no clue what meditation is. But, it’s sitting still, getting to that point where you feel grounded and then, from there, do things that can you into higher states of consciousness. We could always go into that later.

Matt - Awesome. Also, Phil, I really appreciate your time, and all of your knowledge and sharing your wisdom and expertise. I really think you have the best sauna out there. And, I really think it’s a place to start with health because I get messages every day, like people pretty much for medical advice. I say I can’t give that but I would do, what I recommend, where I started was start sweating. And, get a shower filter. Drink clean water that I have on my website. But, start with water. And, sweating is related to water. So, if someone just focuses on the water aspect of their life, their life will massively improve in all areas.

Phillip - Well, Dr. Jerry Pollock discovered that light actually makes the water, the fourth phase of water, the light, and the far-infrared light is actually the most effective light for getting the water molecules to do something special. So, it’s really exciting, you know, with light. You know, like again, pure earth, pure water, pure air and pure fire. And, that’s the light of the far-infrared light.

Matt - I love it. Awesome Phil. Well, stick around while I close out the show. And, thanks so much for coming on.

Phillip - Great. It’s been fun. It’s been really just a delight.

Matt-  OK Thanks so much. Hang on while I close it out here.

Phillip - And, remember, the best thing about the Relax Sauna are those side effects of joy and euphoria that are so difficult to get from another sauna. And, that’s what makes the Relax Sauna super, super special, that clarity of mind and the joy and the freedom you feel after getting out. You almost feel euphoric.

Matt - Phillip Wilson, very interesting man. That was a really fun chat. I love people like that. People who are older chronologically. He’s definitely not older biologically, but chronologically older, with that attitude and, just, zest for life. That’s really inspiring to me because that’s, definitely, how I will be when I’m that age and beyond. So, Phillip Wilson, awesome guy. Really fun to talk to.